Curse

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 25, 2007, 03:53 PM // 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

true... but then you'd still be spamming, which is also against the rules, and still be banned.... hehehehe gotta love it

But thats the point, address the problem instead of changing the playing grounds.
Pressing a preset key would still be spamming if it was done every second, but if say u pressed it every 10 secs, thats different. But the real issue is TRADE in all chat.

But alot of people seem to be missing the main point, like our friend 'sanggers', Spammers/Selling have a TRADE channel. Which strangely enough is used for TRADE. Problem solved with equal ground given.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sangdynasty

HEHE I can hear the grinding of the logic mills from where I sit.

The problems in ALL chat are so much worse than I ever immagined as the new ban forces me to actually suffer through the mindless dialogue that some feel is prefferable to trade chat in ALL.

Your kidding right? Suffer thru mindless dialogue... yeah I hate that whole mindless conversation thing that happens with people connecting. Should restrict mindless conversations and promote Spammage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sangdynasty

I surrender *white flag raises*. As a matter fo fact I DO know how to turn it off, which is what I always did BEFORE when I didnt want to be bothered. Funny no one else could think to do that but, alas I guess twas my original thought that perhaps other thinking individuals played as gamers and saw as I did, that this "fix" is nothing more than a petty band-aid applied to the emotional wounds of a disaffected few that found it hard to have their "meaningful conversations" out in the open, in an anonymous gaming community, where some 3 million others are made to bear witness.

So your admit to turning local chat off? Why the thread then? was it to use big words

*A district doesn't hold 3 million players

*I'm sure 70% of players have local deselected, I wonder why? Couldn't be the excessive trade spam.

*Trade is for Trade, Local is for discussion. Them the rules, and Guild wars has never be a free/ unrestricted society.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sangdynasty

To those that ripped me, it's all well taken and I can appreciate your point as I now will have to leave local off so as not to be sickened by the "important conversations" that so beautifl FLEW past before.

Well your in luck! The ever oppressive orwellian devs have yet to enforce a 'No Trade- What so ever' ban, So for the repeated message and endless textual shout drop by the Trade channel and marvel at the pink text.

Also I can suggest some books by Friedrich Nietzsche, there also good for throwing big words and ideals into debates

Before the effect one believes in different causes than one does after the effect.
Friedrich Nietzsche

freekedoutfish · Jun 25, 2007, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by sangdynasty

Well it seems that 1984 has come to GW. Big Brother has determined that we are unable as a community to use the chat feature as we feel is necessary or effective.

Players will now be "account marked" for trade in local chat and I, for one, beleive this is a mistake on ANets part. A gaming community should be molded and built by its players, not governed by arbitrary regulations enforced because some people dont like something.

Whats next?

Players should no longer look for groups in local, as we have a Party Searcch option.

Players will no longer recruit for their guilds in local, again theres a tab in the party search box.

etc.

Oh grow up.....

....its long over drew that Anet finally cracked down on trading and spamming in local chat. Are you going to honestly say that it wasnt a major problem having people spam the local chat in capital cities?

If you say it wasnt, then you have been living under a rock, or your one of the spammers!

And stop being so overdramatic...

..Anet has no problem with people trying to form parties using the local chat. Thats what it was intended for! What they and everyone else has issues with is the constant spamming and trade overwhelming the local chat.

Traders have a dedicated channel all for themselvs, so there is NO excuse to abuse or even use the local chat to trade.

I expect you miffed about this, because you were one of those players who likes to spam messages in local to get attention. But now you cant... boohoo!

There is a different between having your liberties removed, and abusing those liberties.

Trading and spamming the local chat is abusing the liberties which Anet gave you!

Its about time Anet came down and treat your all like the children you act like.

Would you complain if a police officer told you to stop shouting racism comments in the street and offending people, because you felt you have the right to free speach?

Even freedom of speach comes with responsibility, and if you dont know how to respect yourself or other, then you deserve to have your liberties removed.

Grow up and stop winging because you cant abuse the system anymore.

youngstar · Jun 25, 2007, 03:58 PM // 15:58

This thread is too much whining. The local chat channel was NOT made to trade with, that's why we have a trade channel.

Terra Xin · Jun 25, 2007, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I just want to say...

Thank you so much for getting rid of trade spam in all chat. Very much appreciated!

bug_out · Jun 25, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kool Pajamas

I'm guessing the OP just read that book and thought he might impress someone with big words.

He might try Animal Farm. It's a much better book. LOL

Voltar · Jun 25, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

well, it was a community-driven choice. it's more like the smoking bans coming into effect these days.

quit spamming!
quit spamming!
quit spamming!
quit spamming!
quit spamming!
quit spamming!

Voltar · Jun 25, 2007, 11:49 PM // 23:49

quit spamming!

Quantum Duck · Jun 26, 2007, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Comparing game chat policies to anything political is simply absurd. The game is run on privately owned servers. Check the policy you agreed to when you made your account. The players of the game (Not the people running the servers) overwhelmingly supported every reasonable proposal to keep the trade noise limited to the channel dedicated to trade. The people running the game finally decided to go along with the wishes of almost everyone who wasn't a trade spammer and are now actually trying to do something about it.

A: There is no free speech on privately run servers. The operators are allowed to impose any rules they please, and the only way to be free of those rules is to leave their servers.
B: No one is being told not to trade. We are only restricted to using the chat channel designated for trade when we want to advertise trade. This is neither a strict nor unreasonable restriction.
C: They only imposed this rule due to excessive popular demand, and only after many months of ignoring that demand and/or trying gentler suggestions to encourage people to use the trade channel for trade.

DreamWind · Jun 26, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

1. It's not that people wanted the rule (it's always been there), it's that people wanted the rule enforced.

2. The lack of an auction house is no excuse for spamming. And the fact that A-Net hasn't gotten one as the people want is no excuse for not giving people what they want when it comes to spamming.

3. As others have already said, the all-chat is NOT the system A-net put in place for trading. They put in TRADE-chat for that.

First of all, if you reply to this post with "you are just a spammer", well you are wrong because I don't even trade. I am posting for the sake of argument.

1. The rule has always been meaningless because the system Anet designed ALLOWED and ENCOURAGED spam. If Anet really wanted spam to be stopped, why didn't they just implement better in-game filters to deal with it? Why didn't they just give the players better means to trade so spamming became obselete? Why are they now deciding to take action on players using a system they created instead of making the system better so it couldn't or wouldn't be abused? Why give people a system where there is BENEFIT to spamming?

2. Ok so the lack of a better system (not neccessarily an auction house) is no excuse for spamming? I beg to differ. There is no better in game way to trade items. How else are people to advertise other than going to some out of game means?

Also I see that people are defending LFG in local but not trade in local. What kind of logic is that? By the logic people are using here, the addition of a party search means there is no excuse to LFG in the chat anymore. By that logic there can't be ANY LFG spam that I see constantly because there is no LFG channel. Why isn't that now a bannable offense just like trading?

Better yet, if you are continuing with that logic, why not just click the little X on the local chat box to turn it off? If you are one of the people claiming the "trade channel is the system they put in place", then I can say that "turning the local chat off is the system they put in place to remove your annoyance". The trade channel is NOT a good alternative.

From what I see here, people are attacking spam they don't use because it annoys them while defending LFG because they use it. That isn't a great way to judge what is good and bad for the game.

3. Again, you are arguing that the trade chat is the system put into place. I've already stated how I feel about that.

So there. The thing is I AGREE that spam in chat was rather annoying, but that isn't my problem. My main problem is people are just saying good riddance and praising Anet for "removing their troubles" by putting a temporary patch on the problem instead of looking critically at Anet and at real alternatives that have been talked about for YEARS. And saying "the trade chat" is an alternative spam area doesn't cut it.

I have one last thing to say. The argument that "people wanted it so its good for the game" doesn't cut it either. People have wanted real solutions for YEARS with no addition in this game. That is no excuse for this policing to be implmented and not the other real solutions people have been asking for, not just in this area, but in the entire game.

Master Ketsu · Jun 26, 2007, 02:28 AM // 02:28

Id rather see the garbage people are talking about then the rediculously overpriced garbage I dont care to buy. At least the random garbage has a slight chance of being funny, were the trade in all spam garbage is 100% annoying.

arcanemacabre · Jun 26, 2007, 02:30 AM // 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Id rather see the garbage people are talking about then the rediculously overpriced garbage I dont care to buy. At least the random garbage has a slight chance of being funny, were the trade in all spam garbage is 100% annoying.

QFT

(1234567)

Diablo™ · Jun 26, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by sangdynasty

Well it seems that 1984 has come to GW.

A little bit of Fascism can be a cure to Anarchy, and vice versa.

WarKaster · Jun 26, 2007, 04:14 AM // 04:14

WEEEEEEEEE IN BEFORE THE LOCK!!!!

dude you can't be serious about this. the chat window was impossible to keep up and not get a seizure from all the spam flying by so quick. and if you had all channels active in L.A. or any other major trading town your nucking futs...
This was a long time coming and you know it..just adapt and get your ass into the trade channel where trading and selling belong.

Miral · Jun 26, 2007, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarKaster

WEEEEEEEEE IN BEFORE THE LOCK!!!!

dude you can't be serious about this. the chat window was impossible to keep up and not get a seizure from all the spam flying by so quick. and if you had all channels active in L.A. or any other major trading town your nucking futs...
This was a long time coming and you know it..just adapt and get your ass into the trade channel where trading and selling belong.

its gone 6 pages and 3 days... I think saying in before the lock was kind of a waste

manitoba1073 · Jun 26, 2007, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

First of all, if you reply to this post with "you are just a spammer", well you are wrong because I don't even trade. I am posting for the sake of argument.

1. The rule has always been meaningless because the system Anet designed ALLOWED and ENCOURAGED spam. If Anet really wanted spam to be stopped, why didn't they just implement better in-game filters to deal with it? Why didn't they just give the players better means to trade so spamming became obselete? Why are they now deciding to take action on players using a system they created instead of making the system better so it couldn't or wouldn't be abused? Why give people a system where there is BENEFIT to spamming?

2. Ok so the lack of a better system (not neccessarily an auction house) is no excuse for spamming? I beg to differ. There is no better in game way to trade items. How else are people to advertise other than going to some out of game means?

Also I see that people are defending LFG in local but not trade in local. What kind of logic is that? By the logic people are using here, the addition of a party search means there is no excuse to LFG in the chat anymore. By that logic there can't be ANY LFG spam that I see constantly because there is no LFG channel. Why isn't that now a bannable offense just like trading?

Better yet, if you are continuing with that logic, why not just click the little X on the local chat box to turn it off? If you are one of the people claiming the "trade channel is the system they put in place", then I can say that "turning the local chat off is the system they put in place to remove your annoyance". The trade channel is NOT a good alternative.

From what I see here, people are attacking spam they don't use because it annoys them while defending LFG because they use it. That isn't a great way to judge what is good and bad for the game.

3. Again, you are arguing that the trade chat is the system put into place. I've already stated how I feel about that.

So there. The thing is I AGREE that spam in chat was rather annoying, but that isn't my problem. My main problem is people are just saying good riddance and praising Anet for "removing their troubles" by putting a temporary patch on the problem instead of looking critically at Anet and at real alternatives that have been talked about for YEARS. And saying "the trade chat" is an alternative spam area doesn't cut it.

I have one last thing to say. The argument that "people wanted it so its good for the game" doesn't cut it either. People have wanted real solutions for YEARS with no addition in this game. That is no excuse for this policing to be implmented and not the other real solutions people have been asking for, not just in this area, but in the entire game.

QFT. And lets not forget how ppl are putting there hate towards the trade spam.
ILL requote a few in the same sentence. IT WAS ANNOYING TO GOTO A MAJOR TRADE CENTER AND SEE TRADE IN ALL CHAT? Anyone else see a problem with that qoute.

Miral · Jun 26, 2007, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

QFT. And lets not forget how ppl are putting there hate towards the trade spam.
ILL requote a few in the same sentence. IT WAS ANNOYING TO GOTO A MAJOR TRADE CENTER AND SEE TRADE IN ALL CHAT? Anyone else see a problem with that qoute.

you realize the cities aren't just there for trade, ya? they also have tons of quests, services, guild recruitment, etc... all chat in the all chat channel, trade chat in the trade chat channel. is it that hard to comprehend? That is how it was always meant to be. Because some people chose to disobey that stipulation and went unpunished for a while doesn't make it right. Just count your blessings that they aren't making the newly revived enforcement of the rule retroactive and permanently banning everyone that trade spammed all chat before. It's real simple. if you want to trade, either press shift 4 to say it in trade chat, or post something on an auction site or forum. I've had far better luck with guru auctions than any in-game spamming, so maybe you should give it a try?

Kook~NBK~ · Jun 26, 2007, 07:25 AM // 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

1. The rule has always been meaningless because the system Anet designed ALLOWED and ENCOURAGED spam.

No, the rule was meaningless because is wan't enforced. SPAM was never encouraged.

Quote:

If Anet really wanted spam to be stopped, why didn't they just implement better in-game filters to deal with it?

A-Net wants to stop it because the larger GW community has been broken into isolated groups of guilds and alliances because they can't carry on a conversation with the wider community because ALL-Chat had been overrun by trade chat and trade spammers. They also want it because the larger community wants it stopped.

Quote:

Why didn't they just give the players better means to trade so spamming became obselete?

They did - it's called the "Party Search," which isn't a great solution, but people DO look at the thing and it's so much easier to read than the scrolling text.

Quote:

Why are they now deciding to take action on players using a system they created instead of making the system better so it couldn't or wouldn't be abused? Why give people a system where there is BENEFIT to spamming?

They're taking actions against people who are abusing the sytem. As someone who DOES engage in trading in-game, I can tell you that there is NO benefit to spamming. I've never spammed, and always used the trade channel. I also use the Party Search window for selling things that fit there. the only problem I've ever had selling something is when I overpriced it.

Quote:

2. Ok so the lack of a better system (not neccessarily an auction house) is no excuse for spamming? I beg to differ. There is no better in game way to trade items. How else are people to advertise other than going to some out of game means?

Your experience as a trader can confirm this? The Trade channel works just fine. And we're talking about SPAMMING here, not posting your wares for sale once every so often.

Quote:

Also I see that people are defending LFG in local but not trade in local. What kind of logic is that? By the logic people are using here, the addition of a party search means there is no excuse to LFG in the chat anymore. By that logic there can't be ANY LFG spam that I see constantly because there is no LFG channel. Why isn't that now a bannable offense just like trading?

It'd be nice if more people used the Party Search window for LFG and guild recruiting.

Quote:

Better yet, if you are continuing with that logic, why not just click the little X on the local chat box to turn it off?

People want to turn local chat back on. People turned off local chat because of all the trade crap going on there. People want to turn it back on so they can actually have conversations with people beyond their guilds/alliances.

Quote:

If you are one of the people claiming the "trade channel is the system they put in place",

I am. I'm also advocating the use of the Party Search window. There does need to be more room for messages in there, but it's perfectly servicable for trading things like mini-pets, materials, and green weapons.

Quote:

then I can say that "turning the local chat off is the system they put in place to remove your annoyance". The trade channel is NOT a good alternative.

People are annoyed that they can't get involved in a conversation in any of the major cities and many of the ones along the story-line because of inappropriate use of the ALL chat.

Quote:

From what I see here, people are attacking spam they don't use because it annoys them while defending LFG because they use it. That isn't a great way to judge what is good and bad for the game.

SPAMMING LFG messages is just as annoying as any other kind of spam. POSTING them in all-chat isn't that much of an issue for me, since there was never a channel dedicated for "LFG" or guild recruiting. Then again, I'm all for people using PS to post recruiting messages and all that.

Quote:

3. Again, you are arguing that the trade chat is the system put into place. I've already stated how I feel about that.

It is, and if you've read my other posts, you'd know that I don't think it's the greatest "system" in the world.

Quote:

I have one last thing to say. The argument that "people wanted it so its good for the game" doesn't cut it either.

People want it FOR the good of the game. The overall GW community has gone to crap and that's due in part to the inability to interact with others because traders hijacked all-chat.

Quote:

People have wanted real solutions for YEARS with no addition in this game. That is no excuse for this policing to be implmented and not the other real solutions people have been asking for, not just in this area, but in the entire game.

So if they don't solve one problem, they shouldn't solve any problems? There's no logic or sense to that.

strcpy · Jun 26, 2007, 07:54 AM // 07:54

There are many people who are eventually going to be in for a BIG surprise if they truly believe and live by what they say. "But, your Honor, the made me speed by giving me a fast lane and not having a governor on my car!"

Of the more amusing moments is when someone from the parts of the US that have a fairly strong "nanny state" move to the parts that have a weak one. We are allowed to be quite the jackass as long as we only hurt ourselves - the law doesn't care if I blow my arms off, blind myself, or even kill myself. In fact, there are quite a few stores that sale things that are fairly easy to do that with - all are legal and all can be used responsibly for fairly large amounts of fun time. There are a myriad of stories that tend to end with "but I was allowed to do that" - no, really? We all thought you were just smart enough to not do that and figured those that weren't would learn quite quickly.

I rather suspect they either come from one of the "nanny state" areas or simply are complaining that they can no longer abuse a system. Either way you are learning a valuable life lesson - just because no one has stopped you from doing something doesn't mean it is good, proper, and the polite thing to do. I have no sympathy for those that abused general chat for trade - you have really hurt the game for 90% of the players who are following the rules.

Roshi_ikkyu · Jun 26, 2007, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

QFT. And lets not forget how ppl are putting there hate towards the trade spam.
ILL requote a few in the same sentence. IT WAS ANNOYING TO GOTO A MAJOR TRADE CENTER AND SEE TRADE IN ALL CHAT? Anyone else see a problem with that qoute.

Yes TRADE in ALL CHAT, trade is why they created a TRADE CHAT.

And major trade centers are only considered that due to the high number of people FORCED to travel through those areas. They are major locations for story plots and quests, making large numbers of people interact there, thus SPAMMERS and TRADERS move in to expose there wars to a larger audience.

freekedoutfish · Jun 26, 2007, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

First of all, if you reply to this post with "you are just a spammer", well you are wrong because I don't even trade. I am posting for the sake of argument.

1. The rule has always been meaningless because the system Anet designed ALLOWED and ENCOURAGED spam. If Anet really wanted spam to be stopped, why didn't they just implement better in-game filters to deal with it? Why didn't they just give the players better means to trade so spamming became obselete? Why are they now deciding to take action on players using a system they created instead of making the system better so it couldn't or wouldn't be abused? Why give people a system where there is BENEFIT to spamming?

What an absolute load of rubbish!

Thats like saying because Guns have triggers, it incourages you to fire them!

You have a flaming brain, you have the sense and intelligence to realise NOT to spam local chat to the point that it is rendered un-useable. You're trying to argue in favour of abuse.

Anet didnt put up a big sign saying "come one, come all. We invite and incourage you to spam and abuse our software"!

Would you mug someone and then say "well the police incourages me to do it because they didnt stop me!".

Dont blame the software or the developer, just because the users abuse it!!!!!

You have to take responibility for your actions and your decisions! If you choose to spam the local chat and abuse the rules and the game, then you deserve to be banned.

You cant blame Anet just because you chose to abuse their system.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

2. Ok so the lack of a better system (not neccessarily an auction house) is no excuse for spamming? I beg to differ. There is no better in game way to trade items. How else are people to advertise other than going to some out of game means?

So its acceptable and excusable to use the local chat to the point, where it can NO longer be used for ANYTHING except trade?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Also I see that people are defending LFG in local but not trade in local. What kind of logic is that? By the logic people are using here, the addition of a party search means there is no excuse to LFG in the chat anymore. By that logic there can't be ANY LFG spam that I see constantly because there is no LFG channel. Why isn't that now a bannable offense just like trading?

The entire point of the local chat is to help find PUGs. And when was the last time you saw someone spamming a "LFG"? Hardly anyone ever posts "LFG" anyway because people expect the magical fairy to come down and create a party for them.

By your own logic, we shouldnt be using the trade channel either because we have the party search feature! HYPERCRIT comes to mind.

Get this into your tiny brain... You have a dedicated trade channel. We DONT have a dedicated LFG channel or chat channel! So we use the local for both conversations and finding pugs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Better yet, if you are continuing with that logic, why not just click the little X on the local chat box to turn it off? If you are one of the people claiming the "trade channel is the system they put in place", then I can say that "turning the local chat off is the system they put in place to remove your annoyance". The trade channel is NOT a good alternative.

So f*ing what if the trade channel is no good, how is that an excuse to use the local chat to the point where you cant communicate or find pugs?

Justify to that to me!!!!

And how is using one chat channel, any better then using another! Your saying posting in the trade channel is NOT an effective way to trade. So how is the local chat any better? their exactly the same system!!!!!!!

Just because one has the word "local" on it and the other "trade" doesnt make it any more effective at selling things.

They are both part of the same mechanism!

Sorry, but your an absolute moron if you expect people to just "turn off" the local chat to avoid the abuse! Would you close your curtains if you saw a gang of yobs in your street and pretend their not there smashing windows and cars?

Your expecting us to turn a blind eye to blatent abuse of the system, just because you and others want a better way to trade!

GROW UP!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

From what I see here, people are attacking spam they don't use because it annoys them while defending LFG because they use it. That isn't a great way to judge what is good and bad for the game.

3. Again, you are arguing that the trade chat is the system put into place. I've already stated how I feel about that.

Ok... you dont like the trade system, you dont like how it works! You hate it!

We DONT care, because your saying its ok to abuse the system just because you dont like how a small part of it works. Just because the system doesnt work for you, doesnt mean it doesnt work for others.

Have you concidered maybe your sales techniques just DONT work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

So there. The thing is I AGREE that spam in chat was rather annoying, but that isn't my problem. My main problem is people are just saying good riddance and praising Anet for "removing their troubles" by putting a temporary patch on the problem instead of looking critically at Anet and at real alternatives that have been talked about for YEARS. And saying "the trade chat" is an alternative spam area doesn't cut it.

I have one last thing to say. The argument that "people wanted it so its good for the game" doesn't cut it either. People have wanted real solutions for YEARS with no addition in this game. That is no excuse for this policing to be implmented and not the other real solutions people have been asking for, not just in this area, but in the entire game.

So you'd rather they did absolutely nothing and instead let people continue to spam and use the local chat for trade?

Oh yes, thats a very effective way to sort out the issue.

So unless Anet finds a way to deal with the issue that YOU like, we shouldnt do anything at all. Anet has to get your blessing on everything, before they even try to change anything in fear YOU dont like it.